Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
04/06/2010 03:30 PM Senate COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| HB273 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 273 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 273-MUNICIPAL GENERAL GRANT LAND
3:35:14 PM
CHAIR OLSON said the first order of business to come before the
committee was HB 273 [CSHB 273(FIN)].
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON, sponsor of HB 273, said the bill
corrects a deficit in the borough formation process, which
resulted in minimal land entitlement for the city and borough of
Wrangell and Haines. HB 273 increases their municipal land
entitlement. When a new municipality forms, the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) grants the municipality 10 percent of
the vacant, unappropriated and unreserved (VUU) state land
within the borough. Because the borough of Wrangell is comprised
of over 97 percent federal land, Wrangell's original entitlement
from DNR was only 1,952 acres. Other Southeast communities, such
as Haines, have had the same problem.
The City and Borough of Wrangell and DNR entered negotiations
and agreed on an acreage that was suitable to both parties. HB
273 was amended in the house Community and Regional Affairs
(CRA) committee based on these negotiations. The current version
of HB 273 entitles the City and Borough of Wrangell to 6,506
acres. Wrangell later realized that the Sunny Bay area, a 2,500
acre section of the Cleveland Peninsula parcel was included in
HB 295, the University Land Grant bill, and was slated to be
handed over to the university.
REPRESENTATIVE PEGGY WILSON said she amended HB 295 in House
Resources committee, giving the City and Borough of Wrangell
priority selection in this area. An amendment in House Finance
increased Wrangell's entitlement by about 2500 acres to allow
the city to select Sunny Bay in addition to their original
selections. The city had originally asked for 19,000 acres and
the selections still only equal 9,000 acres.
She noted that Sunny Bay is used by Alaska Crossings, a
statewide wilderness youth program and the largest employer in
Wrangell. It is also used by Wrangell-based guide and charter
companies and is a subsistence and recreational use area for
local residents. She asked that the committee consider passing
HB 273 with the full allotment of the 9,600 acres for the City
and Borough of Wrangell.
3:39:26 PM
CHAIR OLSON recognized Senator Thomas as joining the meeting.
CHAIR MENARD asked if HB 273 had any opposition.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that a little pushback came
from DNR.
CHAIR OLSON asked what DNR's main objection was.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that DNR's main objection was
that HB 273 will take 2,500 acres away from the university
allotment.
CHAIR OLSON asked if the university has a problem with the
acreage selected by the borough.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that the university testified
and expressed a sentiment similar to, "Well there's not much we
can do about it."
CHAIR OLSON said the university has resigned itself to this. He
asked if HB 273 is displacing anyone from the area.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied no.
CHAIR OLSON asked if any of the land selection in HB 273 is in
the Southeast State Forest that is going to be established.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied no.
CHAIR OLSON asked what kind of development could go on in the
9,600 acres.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that Carol Rushmore can answer
that question.
3:42:23 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked if there was a land trade situation with
the university.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied no.
CHAIR OLSON asked Representative P. Wilson to address some of
the issues that the amendment brought up on the Haines
selection.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that Robert Venables, from
Haines, can speak to that.
CHAIR OLSON asked how many acres Haines started out with
initially.
ROBERT VENABLES, planning commissioner, Haines Borough, said he
was speaking on behalf of Mark Ernest, Haines Borough Manager.
He replied that the Haines Borough is about 2 million acres
proper with about 80,000 acres considered VUU lands. The 10
percent entitlement would equal 8,000 acres. At the urging of
the state, the 3rd class Haines Borough was dissolved and a new
home borough was established. The entitlement then should have
been extended. He noted that the grant is not just about the
land but is an entitlement that to help subsidize the new cost
of a new borough formation. The acreage is a compromise of what
they saw as available and useable - there's many more acres of
VUU land which are not accessible. These are areas that have
promise for development and use for the municipality that are
not seen as being useful to the state.
CHAIR OLSON asked if anyone is being displaced by the selections
of these lands.
MR. VENABLES replied no.
CHAIR OLSON asked what the plans are for developing the extra
acreage.
MR. VENABLES replied that the planning commission would start
the classification process to find the best use. Subdivision is
possible, with taxes then subsidizing the municipal, operational
cost.
CHAIR OLSON asked what kind of services will be provided to
people in that area.
MR. VENABLES replied that "sometimes the best service we can
provide is no service". Areas like Excursion Inlet are happy to
pay the minimal amounts for education and then be left alone.
Other times, areas will form a service area and then the
government delivers services the residents deem appropriate.
3:47:12 PM
SENATOR MENARD asked if Haines has been dropping in population.
MR. VENABLES replied that the economic situation is grim with
the loss of mills and limited resource development. Haines'
population has been one of the more stable in Southeast but is
still declining. He noted a small influx of retirees.
SENATOR THOMAS asked for confirmation that the 1,809 acres
indicated in the letter from Janice Hill, mayor of Haines, are
included on in the 3,167 acres on page 2, line 7 of Version E.
KACI SCHROEDER HOTCH, staff to Representative Thomas, replied
yes and noted that Mayor Hill's letter of support was written
before DNR said other parcels are available.
SENATOR THOMAS clarified that in discussions with DNR, Haines
picked up further acreage.
MS. SCHROEDER HOTCH replied yes.
3:50:56 PM
CHAIR OLSON opened public testimony.
CAROL RUSHMORE, director, economic development, City and Borough
of Wrangell, said Wrangell became a borough in May, 2008. The
city has worked with Representative Peggy Wilson on HB 273 and
with DNR to identify the acreage. In 2005, when the University
Land Grant bill was new, the city successfully lobbied for
Wrangell to have first selection of three parcels of land in the
bill should Wrangell become a borough by 2009. In 2005, the
borough's boundaries did not include part the Sunny Bay parcel
and Wrangell did not realized they would be able to select some
of that land. In 2006, Meyers Chuck approached Wrangell to be
part of the borough and the boundary was changed and ultimately
included some of that parcel. Wrangell is extremely interested
in that parcel because of the jobs there now and potential for
additional economic development and use by borough residents.
3:53:42 PM
Originally, some of the parcels the borough was looking at were
part of the Southeast State Forest and so the borough backed
off. As a timber community, Wrangell understands the need for
certain types of timber land and feels that the state's
development of timber land will benefit the borough and city.
Wrangell has requested an amendment to the current University
Land Grant bill so that Wrangell has first rights to the Sunny
Bay parcel.
CHAIR OLSON asked what services the city and borough provides
currently and plans to provide for newly acquired areas.
MS. RUSHMORE replied that a couple of settlement areas exist
within the new borough area: Meyers Chuck, Thoms Place and Olive
Cove. The city and borough has been working closely with Meyer's
Cove to identify what services they need, such as a new dock or
communication services. Sometimes they do not want anything.
CHAIR OLSON asked about public safety and schools.
3:56:42 PM
MS. RUSHMORE replied that the city and borough does provide
search and rescue, police, planning and taxing.
CHAIR OLSON asked how the Haines borough came to 3,176 acres.
MARK ERNEST, manager, Haines Borough, responded that
coordination with DNR found lands deemed VUU within the borough.
Little land was VUU and could be developed. Three parcels were
included in the university land selection bill but were dropped
and then made available for selection. These, plus two more
parcels, one identified in the letter, make up the acreage.
3:59:19 PM
DON MCCONACHIE, mayor, City and Borough of Wrangell, said
Wrangell would like to be as responsible and self-sufficient as
possible. He pointed out that Wrangell has kept in close contact
with its outlying areas.
CHAIR OLSON asked about Wrangell's population now and in ten
years.
MR. MCCONACHIE replied that Wrangell's population has declined
over the last ten years because of the down turn in the forest
industry and lack of job opportunities. Wrangell is trying to
reinvent itself and expand on job opportunities. He foresees
minimal growth over the next ten years but hopes it is slow and
steady.
4:02:07 PM
TIM ROONEY, manager, City and Borough of Wrangell, emphasized
the importance of the Sunny Bay area to the Wrangell economy.
AICS/Crossings, Wrangell's largest employer, utilizes the area.
He would like to see the area protected.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON commented she would like to see HB 273
moved out of committee.
CHAIR OLSON asked what DNR's main objection to HB 273 is. He
asked if DNR supports HB 273.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON replied that "it is kind of hard to
tell". She suggested that if DNR is against HB 273, they would
be testifying. She noted that the original request was for
19,000 acres after looking at the average percent that all other
boroughs received upon formation. Negotiations ended with 10,000
acres less than that, but Wrangell was still happy.
CHAIR OLSON asked if DNR negotiated the city and borough down
from 19,000 acres to 9,000 acres. He asked what DNR's stance is
on HB 273.
4:05:34 PM
RICHARD MYLIUS, director, Division of Mining, Land and Water
(MLW), Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said his office
administers the municipal entitlement program. DNR agrees that
Haines and Wrangell should get a larger land settlement because
the formula, in statute, resulted in a small amount of land. DNR
agreed with Wrangell on a figure of 6,506 acres and with Haines
for 1,809 acres. Both municipalities wanted one additional,
specific parcel of land each that was committed to the
university in HB 295. HB 295 was amended and the Haines parcel
was withdrawn and Wrangell was to get priority on the parcel
there. DNR still feels it is appropriate for those parcels to go
to the university and prefers the smaller acreage figures. He
noted that HB 273 does not specify the parcels of land, only the
acreage. Later issues could arise during the conveyance process
because of competing issues. DNR does not oppose HB 273.
SENATOR THOMAS asked what the other competing interests are and
how much land entitlement is still left.
MR. MYLIUS replied that one parcel in Haines had been identified
for a future park if it did not go to the university. No other
problems exist with the other acreage in Haines. In Wrangell,
the 19,000 acreage figure would have a significant negative
impact on the state's timber program. The parcel at Sunny Bay
was not identified for timber harvest but it was selected by the
state for possible future development. HB 273 does not give the
City and Borough of Wrangell that parcel; a subsequent decision-
making process will take place to sort that out.
4:09:56 PM
SENATOR THOMAS referred to the date October 1, 2011 in HB 273
and asked if that is the deadline for land selection.
MR. MYLIUS replied that October 1, 2011, is the date by which
the land selections must be filed and then DNR has to make a
best interest finding and a public notice on those lands. If DNR
rejects any of the selections, other land can be selected. DNR
is obligated to fulfill an entitlement; if sufficient land is
not available, cash can be used if the legislature will
appropriate the money.
SENATOR THOMAS said he thought the land was classified VUU; he
asked if the borough has the first right to that land.
MR. MYLIUS replied that DNR looks at the VUU classification and
then at the land use plan. The land use plan for one parcel in
Haines, even though it is VUU, specifically says it has
potential for a state marine park. The borough is aware of that.
SENATOR THOMAS asked if designated VUU land can also have
another designated use that the boroughs should be aware of in
advance of their land selection.
4:13:21 PM
MR. MYLIUS said the information is known to the borough through
the land use plan. The university land was different because it
was separate legislation from 2005.
SENATOR THOMAS commented that the university or Mental Health
Trust might have evaluated land for mineral use or another use.
CHAIR OLSON asked if Mr. Mylius would want to help the financial
viability of a small, struggling community with more acreage,
especially considering the state's incoming surplus this year.
4:15:44 PM
MR. MYLIUS replied that granting land to municipalities does not
give them a lot of revenue. He said the land is more "an
incentive to control their destiny" rather than a money maker.
He said that Wrangell agreed that taking state land out of
timber production has a negative impact on Southeast's economy.
CHAIR OLSON said Mr. Mylius' answer sounds like the sponsor
would agree with him.
MR. MYLIUS replied that the borough agreed with DNR that timber
harvest lands should stay with the state.
4:18:49 PM
CHAIR OLSON noted that giving a new borough half of their
requested land does not encourage other boroughs to be formed.
MR. MYLIUS replied that the formula-driven entitlement for the
Wrangell Borough was only 1,900 acres and DNR is increasing that
five-fold. The borough came up with the formula that resulted in
the 19,000 acres and DNR did not agree with that formula.
CHAIR OLSON said development is not encouraged unless more
acreage is given to the local area.
MR. MYLIUS replied that the 19,000 acre figure gave Wrangell
more than half of all the state land within the borough which
would have negatively impacted the state timber program.
4:20:23 PM
CHAIR OLSON closed public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said that the formula [that Wrangell
used] is based on how much state land is in borough boundaries.
In Southeast, land is almost all National Forest, not state
land. DNR did not want to give away land involved in the timber
industry and Wrangell agreed. Wrangell then asked for some of
the land that was going to the university. She said, "There
should be some way that we can have parity with the other
boroughs".
SENATOR THOMAS moved to report CSHB 273(FIN), referred to as
Version E, from committee with individual recommendations and
accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, the motion
carried.
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